Joe Rogan - Harmful Information Dissemination?

[MidATL70]

What is Spotify prepared to do regarding this type of communication from Podcast Host Joe Rogan?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/18/joe-rogan-antifa-oregon-fires/?hpid=hp_morning-mix-...

- "The backlash over Rogan’s false claim has heaped more pressure on Spotify, which recently signed the massively popular podcaster to a deal reportedly worth up to $100 million. Spotify also met with employees this week angry that the service is streaming Rogan episodes that critics have called transphobic, Vice reported."

- "The misinformation has led to real problems. When a meme went viral claiming that the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office had arrested “six antifa members” last week, the sheriff’s office was flooded with calls that tied up officers and operators. Unfounded fears of extremist fire-starters and false reports of looting have also led vigilantes to set up illegal roadblocks and hold a photojournalist at gunpoint."

So. . . Community:  Given the state of affairs in the United States, is this where Spotify "is going"?  Even accounting for 1st Amendment rights and artistic freedom, is there where ideas on Spotify are trending?  If so, okay, that's good for some segment of "The Community" - but for me, it might be time to walk away from the membership (and cease my financial contribution to this Company's bottom-line ) in this environment.

[DrMichaelSBrown]

I just signed up for a free trial of Spotify Premium service solely so I could follow the Joe Rogan Podcast.  The fact that he is already under attack by Orwellian anti-free-speech crusaders just underscores the importance of having a place where people can speak freely.

If Spotify doesn't honor the letter and spirit of their contract with Rogan, I'm out of here.   Hosting his podcast is a big responsibility and Spotify has an obligation to his many viewers.

[Pelle__B82]

The only problem is that he said activists...when it was one activist. Oooh the fake news is real! What a liar he is?! Get a grip of yourselves, there are idiots out there that are starting some of these fires.

If you give these leftists a finger, they'll chew your arm off and if you start censoring**bleep** like this i will most likely cancel my subscription which been running for 10 years.

[DesertDawg007]

Buy Daniel Ek a beer!!! Thank you for listening and then making the right decision. There are far more fans of free speech than of the anti-speech crowd. Spotify has the obligation to allow Joe's content unrestricted. They courted him on this premise and his fans expect such. If Spotify was to censor Joe Rogan because some employees disagree with him it opens the door for nearly every podcast to be censored, and many artists and songs. Would Spotify have a business after everyone had their chance to censor things they didn't like? I would certainly cancel my subscription if Spotify decided to become a censor. Keep doing the right thing for the business and society Daniel!!! CEO of the year

[bluedot]

Hate speech is not free speech. Tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance. (The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.)

As an artist on Spotify, we have taken down our tracks from distribution and will not listen nor allow Spotify to play our music if they are looking to buy this kind of content. We cannot stand for this.

[DrMichaelSBrown]

Some day the wokies will realize that if they must block speech that
disagrees with their ideology, then that ideology itself is flawed. It can
only exist within an information bubble where it is never challenged.

[bluedot]

Apparently your doctorate is in privilege and righteousness. Certainly not history, sociology or philosophy. Calling people as "woke" is a sure sign of your implicit bias.

Let me be the first to introduce you to a concept. It's called the Paradox of Intolerance.

"The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that, "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Popper expands upon this, writing, “I do not imply for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force...”"

We have all seen where things go when hate towards minority groups of people is incited on large platforms. Joe Rogan feeds on this. Apparently Spotify wants a piece of that hate pie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[DesertDawg007]

Do you believe that you can "claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force"?    If so, define force.  His quote comes off as a vailed terroristic threat .  Who in their right mind would believe in this concept in the United States?  It's counter to our 1st Amendment.  Please explain.

[bluedot]

Right mind? Just like yelling fire in a crowded theater is not a right of free speech, inciting violence is never free speech. I think you have confused your "first amendment" with destruction of society. Try thinking about others, it could do you well.

[DesertDawg007]

You didn't answer the question.  Do you believe you have the right to censor someone, like Joe Rogan, or me, by force because we don't believe in yours and Karl's philosophy?  If so what does force mean to you?  Can Karl Popper's quote be construed as an intolerant call to incite violence?   I want your opinion, I want to understand.  I read his quote as blatant bigotry.  Educate me. 

Joe Rogan is hardly yelling fire in a crowded theater or destroying society.  It's a podcast, let's be real.  Link to an episode you think makes your argument. 

[Phreon]

You clearly did not read the book from which that quote, a footnote is pulled from out of context, i.e. "The Open Society and Its Enemies". You even failed to see his caution, that you quoted -"I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise."

One of the book's central premises is that the first resort to intolerance is a rational counter argument, not censorship.  Indeed, the only exception he allows for this intolerance is when 'fists and pistols" are already aimed at you. Joe Rogan making stupid statements is no such thing.

Context is important, try to use it.

[bluedot]

Do you honestly think I just pulled my knowledge from Wikipedia to talk with privileged and entitled folk that feed on hate like yourself here at a Spotify Forum? That was for context. I learned this thought game while working with professors in doctorate level coursework.

Unfortunately, "First resort" passed long ago. I'm sorry that you haven't seen this. There are guns pointed now. The sticks have come out, and my personal transgender community are being targeted, beat and killed at high rates due to hate speech spewed like Joe Rogan , supported by bullies with lack of empathy like your post I am replying to.

Unfortunately, its not as existential as ideology - hate speech causes hate crime.  Try on some history and see where it gets a society. This is the talk of fascism and hateful society.  Since we are on Spotify here, perhaps you should listen to Oingo Boingo's "Nothing bad ever happens to me, so why should I care?" It may be a good track to sing along to.

Apparently you are not one of the groups being persecuted by this type of "entertainment" that excites you so much to demand it. Thank you for this wonderful case in point. Your next step is to join your local proud boy group to beat us all with your hateful ideas. I guess we'll see you on the streets.

Me? I'll just remove my music from my thousands of followers here at Spotify and support a business that doesn't support hate speech.

[bluedot]

Here's some articles that link Joe's incendiary hate speech to hate crime. Enjoy!

https://phys.org/news/2019-10-online-speech-crimes-minorities.html
https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a33391944/joe-rogan-abigail-shrier-interview-transphobia/

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xg8jq4/spotify-joe-rogan-transphobic

http://www.mediafiledc.com/time-end-joe-rogan-experience/

[Savagecookay]

Absolutely ridiculous! If spotify gives in to these outrageous demands then I'm going to have to cancel my subscription and delete the app 

[Savagecookay]

That argument makes absolutely no sense and can actually be used for either side. How ridiculous! 

[bluedot]

What argument? That hate speech leads to hate crime? That Spotify wants to make $$ off of the hate pie?

[Savagecookay]

Do you even know what hate speech is? I doubt you have ever encountered hate speech, maybe some prejudice but not hate speech. That is a serious term that has now lost its meaning because people like to use it whenever someone disagrees with them or disagrees with what they believe

[Savagecookay]

And I don't want to hear any pathetic stories, I am a lesbian and have had to go through my own struggles and deal with peoples prejudice. If Joe Rogan is considered hate speech then I truly feel sorry for anyone who encounters real hate speech and the vile people that it comes from because it is going to be a rude awakening. 

[bluedot]

Hey there savagecookay - I guess if this kinda talkshow devalued your right to exist, you may grasp it.

Here's a good read on the subject of hate speech:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/why-america-needs-hate-speech-law/

[DesertDawg007]

Bluedot. First off, the only person being hateful is you.  You don't even know me and labeling me as privileged, entitled, lack empathy, and have hateful ideas.  For whatever reason, you feel you have the license to be the arbiter of truth and opinion.   You don’t.  You can go back to school for 6 more degrees and you still won't.  You just have a problem with someone who calls you out for posting a dumb, out of context, quote collected in from your studies which calls for violence, or force, on those who you deem unworthy of individual opinion.  Oddly, you sound like exactly the type of person you rail against and a poor spokesperson for the transgender community.   Please stop, you aren't.

Never has Joe Rogan inspired hate towards transgendered Americans or anyone else.  You want to remove JRE for debating a person?  I don’t necessarily agree with everything he says.  I haven’t listened to that episode.  But will now. I might learn something, I'm openminded. It’s not hate speech this I can guarantee.   The fact he gave her a platform to discuss proves you're wrong about Joe's show.  

I believe in individualism, free speech, equality, and certainly, would fight, physically fight, for anyone being attacked violently for any reason, sexual orientation, race, religion, or otherwise.  Like many of Joe’s listeners, I have an MMA background and I’m the first person who would confront a bully, which is what I view you as.  I stand with anyone who is living their life to the fullest.  That is truly ALL or our right.   I have many gay and lesbian friends.  Some I consider part of my family.  I'd go to the mat for them and they would for me.  You don't know me.  With this forum, you have an opportunity to enlist others in your cause but instead, you attack and insult.  Do you think being prejudice will make things better, censoring podcasts?  Your methods are ineffectiveve.  So much for your masters degrees in sociology.

Since Sept 24, 2020, 27 trans deaths have occurred. This is sad.  The majority were Black and Latinx.  It’s highly doubtful that any of the perpetrators were listeners of Joe Rogan.  Put your research skills to the test and prove me wrong.  The website has articles for each person.  If you can’t prove it then you need to cede that your argument doesn’t hold water.  Joe Rogan’s listeners are not perpetrators, murderers, or intolerant.  This is dangerous labeling on your part.  The show is perhaps one of the last places where topics can be debated openly without censors controlling the subjects and messaging.  Let’s keep it that way.

Censorship is not the answer.  Err on the side of “rational argument” as Pheron has pointed out.  We’re all in this together.  Have an open mind and drop your prejudices of others.